Live-Blog Debate #2
Re Plagiarism
Obama: Two lines in speeches for the last couple of weeks. Deval is national co-chairman of my campaign — words important, words matter. Saying that I plagiarized from someone who is a national co-chair who gave me the line is silly. How are we going to create good jobs, provide health care, affordable college? What I’ve been talking about in these speeches (some pretty good) is not just hope or inspiriation, but tuition credit tied to service for students. making sure tax code changes, making sure that we bring and end to Iraq war. These are very specific detailed proposals that I’ve been working on for years. Shouldn’t tear each other down, should lift each other up.
HRC If your candidacy is going to be about words, then the words should be your own. Lifting lines from someone else’s speech isn’t change you can believe in; it’s change you can Xerox. (He interrupts, she objects). If you look at the YouTube videos, it does raise questions. No doubt that you are passionate, eloquent speaker. When you look at what we face, we need to unite the country, but also around specific goals. But we’re going to have to unite around working hard. When I introduced universal health care forced coverage on everyone, you chose not to cover. Believe that we have to look at challenges after GWB leaves White House, but then we’ve got to do hard work. Overcoming entrenched opposition that some of us have been fighting for a very long time.
When I took on universal health care in 93 and 94, it was a firestorm. I’m passionate about it. Don’t want to leave people out. tired of insurance companies.
Obama rebuttal: both want universal health care, mine was good when I was down 20 points in polls at the time — my plan hasn’t changed; politics have changed. Any person can get coverage in my plan, help with those who can’t afford it. Reduce costs with prevention, technology, improve quality cut bureaucracy. Cut costs for those who have health insurance, reinsurance to reduce costs. Those are similarities. Major difference is that HRC believes only way to achieve it is to force people to purchase; I believe people want it but can’t afford it. I reduce costs, as many note. Nobody out there who wants health insurance who can’t have it. Many call for a mandate but the notion that I’m leaving 15 million out implies a difference in the goal. I think there’s a different way to get there.
I admire that HRC tried to bring health care in 1993. Wasn’t just pharma and insurance companies. Mistake was that she went behind closed doors, even closed to fellow democrats, my approach much more different to get cooperation from congress. give everyone a seat at the table, educate everyone. We can have great plans but if we don’t change politics in washington we’re going to be having this debate in 4 more years.
to HRC Are you saying Obama is not qualified to be commander-in-chief.
HRC: I believe I’m most qualified.
I want to get back to health care. He has mandate for parents to cover kids. If we don’t make eveyrone get it, insurance companies will game the system. It would be like Social Security or Medicare was voluntary. I don’t believe it will work. Look at what will work and what will not work. If you don’t start with mandates, be nibbled to death.
Obama – Mandate isn’t mandate on govt; it’s a mandate on individuals. Massachusetts has mandate now, have 20% can’t afford it. In some cases, people are paying fines and still can’t afford it. In order for you to force insurance, have to have harsh penalty. HRC says no one will go after wages. Both of us seek to get to universal health care, my way is not as harsh.
HRC interrupts — this is too important, personal. Fundamentally disagree with mandate on parents and fine that parents must insure children. If people show up at hospital sick without insurance. We would not have social security or medicare if everyone didn’t have to participate.
Obama that mother desperate for child health care will be able to get it. We’ve got the ability to make health care to that child right now. if parent doesn’t provide, parent irresponsible. Adults are going to be able to see that they can afford it, can get it. If insurance cos game system then penalize them. I am NOT leaving out 15 million out.
Again, are you suggesting Senator Obama not ready to be commander-in-chief?
HRC For 15 years I’ve negotiated for women’s rights, human rights around the world, served on senate armed services committee. Just this week, we had Pakistan elections, change in Cuba, elections that should have happened Kosovo declares independence, Embassy set fire in Serbia.
Now have opportunities in Cuba, Musharraf may do right thing, continue to promote independence and democracy. when thinking what we can predict and what we cannot predict, I’m ready on day one to make difficult decisions we will inherit from George Bush.
Obama – I wouldn’t be running if I didn’t think I was prepared. #1 job keeping American people safe. Won’t hesitate to act against those doing harm. Means equipping troops, rotating them properly, clothing properly, too many having to redeploy 2-3-4 times. Means using military wisely. Single most important policy decision of this generation, I showed the judgment of a commander in chief that HRC did not. That has consequences. Diverted attention from Afghanistan where Al Qaeda more powerful than ever. Commander had 15 of his platoon sent to Iraq. Were capturing weapons in Afghanistan because inadequaltely eqpipped. Didn’t oppose for sake of opposition, predicted anti-American sentiment, costs, etc. was right. Said putting our eggs in Musharraf’s basket a mistake, again right. On issues where decisions must be made, I’ve shown leadership, that’s why I’m running.
John King
I want to hone this. One of you will run against a decorated war hero who claims you have no experience. HRC to Petraeus, suggested his reports suspended belief. Is Iraq better off than it was six months or a year ago because of the surge?
HRC – Rationale of surge was to create space and time for Iraqis to make decisions only they can make. No question that putting more in gives tactical advantage, but purpose is unfulfilled. Government slowly inched toward a few of the decisions, but hasn’t taken advantage since surge began. That’s why I’ve said that upon taking office, will ask security advisors to give me a plan for troop withdrawal within 60 days with clear message to Iraqis that they no longer have blank check, will have to step up and make these decisions. In best interests of military stretched thin.
Obama – Indisputable that violence has been reduced, thanks to military. Great job pushing back out of Baghdad. Victory out of huge strategic blunder. When we’re having debate with McCain will be easier for candidate originally opposed always to have debate about consequences of that decision. We’ve been diverted from Latin America, aid for a year there is aid for Iraq in a week. We have ignored others to focus on Iraq. The incredible burden that has been placed on Americans starting with military, that there are homeless veterans, that we’re not treating PTSD (and screening), still have vets in South Texas drive 250 miles to a VA hospital. The fact that we’re spending 12 billion dollars every month in Iraq means we can’t deliver health care reform, improvements etc. That’s why we have to have a conversation with McCain because he needs to answer those questions, is he going to keep allowing economy to sink. McCain says he doesn’t understand economy and he’s proving it with his support for George Bush economic policies.
[break]
John King, both critical of GWB secrecy and abuse of power. Obama, you’ve criticized earmarks. But you have $91 million in earmarks but won’t disclose.
Obama: That’s not true. We’ve disclosed all earmarks and will provide you with all information. Created Google for government where every dollar spent is posted on Internet, if they see a no-bid to Halliburton, can check that too. Earmarks are for important public projects.
Sen Clinton, your earmarks are 342 million. Sen McCain says he won’t ask earmarks. Is McCain right about pork barrel spending.
HRC, no because he supported tax cuts for rich and Iraq. We borrow money from Chinese to buy oil from Saudis, where has money gone, cronyism, reduced accountability. Can get back on path we were on (surplus when Bush came to office). Will get us over fiscal irresponsibility of party in office.
Jorge:
HRC would be problem for party if verdict has been different from what people vote.
HRC – not worried, we’ll have a victory in November.
Obama: Primaries and caucuses count for something. Will of voters, expressed in long process, will determine who nominee will be. What’s most important to voters is that we have government listening again. Feel shut out. Mothers figuring out how to get health care, not just desperation of mom, they’re also hitting brick wall. Dont sense debates in washington have anything to do with them, not interested in knocking down barriers standing between people and their dreams. Party at their best can summon tehir sense of higher and common purpose for the people. Nominee will have lots to talk about b/c people want their government back.
Who’s ready to lead. Leaders judged at times of crisis. What was your moment of crisis.
Obama: Wouldn’t point to single moment, point to trajectory of my life. Raised by mom and grandparents. Rocky periods where I was off course, made mistakes. Most important was learning to take responsibility for my own actions, how I can bring people together to make difference. Comm organizing, civil rights attorney, rejecting jobs on wall street, cumulative experience is the judgment I bring, determined to bring government worthy of decency and generosity.
HRC; I think everybody here knows I’ve lived through crises and challenging moments in my life. Grateful for support and prayers of countless Americans. I’m asked “how do you do it”, I have to shake my head, my challenges are nothing compared to what I see in lives of people I meet every day. Was honored to speak with McCain at center in San Antonio to provide rehab for brave young men and women injured, describes others injured and maimed. The hits I’v taken in life are nothing compare to what goes on every single day. I’ve been blessed, was called by faith to give others same blessings. that’s what gets me up in the morning, what motivates me.
whatever happens, we’ll be fine. I hope we can say the same for American people. that’s what this election should be about.
applause, the end.